.303 British reloading

[Slick]

I'm very pleased to see that this site has a “re-loading” forum because not every mil-surp cartridge is available or reliable… I load for an Enfield #5 Jungle carbine and the BEST tip I could offer is to NEVER try to full-length re-size your brass! Doing so will “over-work” the brass resulting in insipient case-head separation. Buy and use a "neck sizer" as bolt action rifles do not need a full-length resize.

Because the Enfield #5 has a shorter barrel, I can also load using faster powders and get best results with the Hornady 174 gr FMJ offering.

YMMV!

[Kali Komrade]

That seems to be a major issue for the Enfield... I've found surplus enfields that completely work over the brass first time through... In reality like you say no bolt action rifle needs to have the brass resized... It actually forms itself to the chamber of the rifle and increases brass life... I shoot .303 british too but have yet to reload for it whats your receipe... Slick

[Slick]

I have some original MK VII that I use as a benchmark for testing, it moves a 180gr FMJ bullet 2331 FPS on average. Another thing to keep in mind for the Enfield is that bore sizes VARY between guns, so ALWAYS start low and work up!!! If you gun has a “looser” bore then the .3105 diameter bullet made not work well – you just have to try it and see (or slug your bore).

My Enfield #5 is in excellent condition with an incredibly nice bore. I shoot the Hornady 174gr FMJ (.3105 dia) and the 150gr SP (.312 dia) – both with outstanding results.

My favorite (of all) loads is the Hornady 174gr FMJ over 38.5gr of IMR3031 for an average of 2341 FPS as this most closely duplicates the factory load.

The Hornady 150gr SP over 41gr of IMR3031 yeilds 2517 FPS.
The Hornady 150gr SP over 31gr of Reloader 7 yeilds 2174 FPS and was a maximum book load where the powder left lots of empty space in the shell.

I’ve also reloaded using IMR 4895 and IMR 4064, but I have yet to chronograph those loads. To be honest, I actually think I “nailed it” the first time with the IMR 3031 as it’s a touch faster for the #5’s shorter barrel and I doubt that I’ll see any improvement over that load. I put ~60 rounds of my favorite load into a circle the size of a tennis ball at 50 yards using the open iron sights. If I’m really trying hard, I can shoot into an inch at 50 yards with the irons, so I’m pretty happy with that.

Here’s a photo of my #5 – sorry it’s a bit dark as I took it using an older camera…
http://www.drinkfromthefirehose.com/images/Enfield.jpg

[Slick]

Oh yeah, here's a pic of a fired (and neck-sized) shell on the left vs. a new "unfired" shell on the right- both are Winchester ->

http://www.drinkfromthefirehose.com/images/303b.jpg

Hope this helps - and also explains my preference for neck-sizing this round.

[Kali Komrade]

Yeah I just bought a No. 1 Mk 4 Enfield made by Savage in the USA and the only reason why I bought it was I wanted to have a bolt action rifle that was built in the 20th century my other two bolt actions I have are a old 1891 Argentinian mauser and an 1895 Chilean mauser... I would say they are not as acccurate as my enfield though... The one thing I don't like about my enfield is that if has the flip site (300m/600m only)on the back not the micrometer sight so its a little harder to get a tight group out of it... I'll post a picture for you next time I take it out of the safe...I still have to get a jungle carbine yet I always loved the lines and over the years have had many chances especially when the old bolt actions were dirt cheap now look at some of the prices... I was looking for a mexican mauser carbine and could not believe the prices... :roll:

I don't think I'm going to have an issue with bore size although I will check... we americans were a little more critical about tolerances like that... think I'll try the IMR receipe you like... my buddy just got his chronograph and we are chrono-ing everything now. Do you have neck sizing dies or do you just back off the full length resizer???

Hey did you see the isapore .308's over at aimsurplus what a deal for a 7.62x51 enfield I love to chop one of those down into Jungle carbine configeration... 8)

Later Kali Out

[Slick]

I had a "very good" #5 back in the 1980's that I let go to a good friend (and regretted selling). At least it went to a good fellow who appreciated the gun. After 20 years (of kicking myself) and shopping, I got REAL lucky. The #5 I bought looked nearly new and was sold to me as a "Gibbs conversion" for cheap. I only paid $269 for it. I had an expert examine it and they told me it was an original (with a 3-digit serial #) and that it was worth 4 times what I paid.

The expert told me the easiest way to spot an ORIGINAL #5 is that the flip-up ladder sight is ONLY graduated to 800 meters whereas the conversion went to 1200 or 1400 meters (I can't remember which) - but that is the easiest way to spot a REAL #5 because the conversions still have the original long-range sights.

I haven't looked at the current Isshy's but I bought one back in the 1990's when they were first released. It had SEVERAL coats of black paint and actually it turned out to be a good thing because it was so thick it protected the rifle - and after being stripped looks like new. It's a 1966 Indian Enfield. I shot about 60 round on commercial .308 through it before I found out that commercial it too hot for the Isshy, so I feed it my odd spares of .7.62x51 when I shoot it.

Oh yeah, I saw a "gibbs" .45-70 Enfield for $369 that has me REAL tempted as it looks like new and I like reloading .45-70 too!

[Kali Komrade]

Yeah I liked the Gibbs rifles but I guess they are out of production as far as I know... I'm gonna go check out there site again and see if they are building again... 369.00 seems to be the going rate for any of those carbine conversions they did that I have seen so far...

[Slick]

Yeah I liked the Gibbs rifles but I guess they are out of production as far as I know... I'm gonna go check out there site again and see if they are building again... 369.00 seems to be the going rate for any of those carbine conversions they did that I have seen so far...

I'm glad you mentioned that they're not made anymore - because I'd been thinking about that Gibb's .45-70 and am absolutely TAPPED (cash-wise) - but I know that if I don't bag it, I'll kick myself later on....

I went back today and bought the darn thing! It's about the same size as my #5 but has a barrel like a "cannon" :shock: I can't imagine how this thing is going to shoot, but it looks just like "brand new"!

It's all blued except the bolt which is done in electroless nickle. It's got Williams WGRS sights (which are OK - but not my favorite). I'll just need to remember to bring my reading glasses when I sight it in because loosening the sight screws lets it move all around and you need to pay attention to the makings for reference. I've already got ~1500 rounds of various loads in .45-70 already to go as I have a Winchester limited edition re-pro 1886 made by Miroku. It's a "take-down" and I just love it - but want to kind of "save" it, as there were only 501 of them made..

[Kali Komrade]

I sure hope I'm right that they are no longer in production... By the time I had enough skins saved up for there .308 version they said they were no longer in production and the last time I checked with them they were only selling parts to service the rifles they sold I still haven't checked there site yet... Good job on snagging that one of my shooting buddies keeps his 45-70 next to his reading chair because he has three bears that come up on his porch and he's got one that already tried to break into the house... That 45-70 will sure stop that SOB

[Slick]

I sure hope I'm right that they are no longer in production... By the time I had enough skins saved up for there .308 version they said they were no longer in production and the last time I checked with them they were only selling parts to service the rifles they sold I still haven't checked there site yet... Good job on snagging that one of my shooting buddies keeps his 45-70 next to his reading chair because he has three bears that come up on his porch and he's got one that already tried to break into the house... That 45-70 will sure stop that SOB

SWEET! You helped me make my decision..(really)... I pick-up on the 14th of Nov! CAN'T WAIT !

I think this will be a fun gun!

[Kali Komrade]

Hey Slick I went to there website the other day which is now non existant (bummer) good call on picking that up... Hey are you trimming your neck sized brass... I was also looking at some of my empty shells the other day that I shot out of the Savage Enfield and the case look like the unfired/resized one on the left... I think my chamber is that tight... Which if it is I think I'll see if I can scare up another one of these U.S. Enfields in .303 british....Now I also notice that when I find most .303 brass its trash because it usually has splits at the neck... I would assume because of chamber wear or maybe the brits didn't hold chamber tolerances as tight because it was a battle rifle... Who knows... Do you get the splits at the necks of your cases...???

[Slick]

Hey Slick I went to there website the other day which is now non existant (bummer) good call on picking that up... Hey are you trimming your neck sized brass... I was also looking at some of my empty shells the other day that I shot out of the Savage Enfield and the case look like the unfired/resized one on the left... I think my chamber is that tight... Which if it is I think I'll see if I can scare up another one of these U.S. Enfields in .303 british....Now I also notice that when I find most .303 brass its trash because it usually has splits at the neck... I would assume because of chamber wear or maybe the brits didn't hold chamber tolerances as tight because it was a battle rifle... Who knows... Do you get the splits at the necks of your cases...???

Oh man! I screwed that one up big-time... Fired is on the left, new is on the right - SORRY about that! I edited the post and have it proper now. They “bell out” at the shoulder after firing – but still chamber just fine after neck-sizing.

Anyways, I always trim all my brass as soon as I buy it. I do this because they tend not to be uniform in length and I'll measure a fair sample before setting the trimmer. They actually come a bit short, but trimming them makes the seating & crimping operations more precise. After that, I just watch them for "stretch" to avoid case head separations.

I haven't have any neck splits - but my #5 has a barrel that's nearly new condition..

Also, I try and fire my rounds by going through all of them to avoid re-loading any cases repeatedly. This way, when I see that my cases are nearing the end of their useful life – I load them one last time and store the ammo away (and consider the brass “expendable” at that point). I do this before they get “bad” enough to discard on inspection – better safe then sorry!

[Kali Komrade]

yeah okay on that I do the same thing with my brass I run through my brass in order so it all gets the same amount of wear... Now when you neck sizing are you using a neck sizing die or are you backing off your full lenght resizing die so as to not push the case neck back further???

[Slick]

yeah okay on that I do the same thing with my brass I run through my brass in order so it all gets the same amount of wear... Now when you neck sizing are you using a neck sizing die or are you backing off your full lenght resizing die so as to not push the case neck back further???

I bought a Lee .303 Brit die set that has the full-length sizer, a neck (ONLY) sizer and a seater. This die set has NO provision to crimp (unlike many die sets that the seater can be "turned down" to crimp after sizing. I had to buy the Lee "factory crimp die" separately - but it was only ~$8 or so. I use the neck-sizer EXCLUSIVELY.

So far, I've never ran a shell into the full-length sizer die. I have some berdan brass (that I won't use) so if you want, I can remove the boxer de-capping pin and size a Berdan shell - if you want to see what one would look like.... (I'm sort of curious too - as I've never used the full length sizer die).

Oh yeah! I just picked up ANOTHER cherry condition #5 Jungle Carbine (orginal) last week. I spent 20 years looking to replace one I let go of and have found 2 in better condition in the past 2 years. I just got back from the Reno gun show (it's BIG) and I only saw one #5 - and it had been "sporterized" (but it was real one) - such a shame to see a rare icon of history fall like that....

[Kali Komrade]

Oh man... Leave me a jungle carbine out there... I've looked at those isshy .308's and I think I'm going to pass on them however I think I'm going to start looking for a good jungle carbine now... Okay I'm going to order the same set of dies you got however I'm going to have to get a full length resizer too so I can resize some brass that did not come out of my gun... I never though I would like shooting an Enfield but they are just so damned smooth I will have to get some more....

Thanks Slick

[Slick]

Oh man... Leave me a jungle carbine out there... I've looked at those isshy .308's and I think I'm going to pass on them however I think I'm going to start looking for a good jungle carbine now... Okay I'm going to order the same set of dies you got however I'm going to have to get a full length resizer too so I can resize some brass that did not come out of my gun... I never though I would like shooting an Enfield but they are just so damned smooth I will have to get some more....

Thanks Slick

Don't forget to order the Lee Factory Crimp Die - because the neck sizing operation won't keep enough tension on the bullet to keep the rounds at the bottom of the magazine from being driven deeper into the case from recoil!

I hate those "round" die holders that some of Lee's dies come in and the FCD comes in a small box that will only hold a pair of dies. Because I typically never use the full-length sizer, I just put it in the box and keep the neck-sizer, seater, and FCD in the round storage container. The good thing is that the Lee's come with the shell holder and a dipper (that never gets used).

Oh yeah, if you try the Hornady 174gr FMJ bullets - they are .3105 in diameter which can be a bit small for some Enfields, so I'd suggest buying ONE box only (when you get your dies) to see if they shoot or keyhole.

[Kali Komrade]

Yeah... I actually have .308 .310 and .312 bullets on the bench now so I'll check to see what seems to fit the best... Like you said there can be real inconsistancys in the bore of the barrel... I don't think the U.S. version will have that problem but you never know I can't wait to start... Out of all of my bolt action rifles this one is far superior... Yeah I don't know about those round pill boxes they send and the powder dipper thats a joke.... I know some folks have used them for years but I can see how things could easily get inconsistant... I've always measured my charges well that is before I got a dillon press... :roll: They'll powder measure seems to keep things pretty consistant when using a ball powder extruded you definetly will see larger inconsistancys... I'm going to hand load these 303's though I just gotta get my press back from my neighbor again... :lol: