Help Identify

[BaronVonRoot]

ok have had trouble with 1919a4 as mentioned in earlier post with having to reset the trigger by pushing it back down hearing a click and then it will fire again... so I finally got to getting a new trigger after some time tried a new trigger spring etc... so I get the new trigger and its a bit different the tabs at the end that’s hits the sear are a bit bigger and that part is spring loaded unlike the original one i got from a gun show... that came with the gun
ok so I install it then go to the sear to install it except it is different... the old one has a plate riveted to it and is wider sear the new one i purchased that looks like the one in my manual is narrow and dose not fit into the groves in the bolt body

at a loss need to identify what I have and what do I do?
can anyone help? here is photos at my web site so it will help you to see and understand http://todejager.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=10
thanks baron

[Kali Komrade]

hmm... What kind of gun did you get an allied...

[GUNRUNNER5150]

Ok heres my thoughts, well the sear with the K stamped on it is from KMP, and the other looks like my Ohio rapid fire sear. They are actually different - if you have an ORF gun you need to get the KMP trigger and sear designed for ORF guns. I will be contacting Tom T from karma metal products myself here in the next few days - i also need a new trig/sear for my ORF. kinda blows cuz i have 2 guns that take different spare parts.

U do have a rapid fire gun right? im not sure which one allied armament uses.

GR5150

[BaronVonRoot]

yes its a ohio rapid I got it at a crossroads gun show in phoenix, I bought the trigger and sear from ohio rapid fire didnt know there was diffrent ones do I need a diffrent trigger also or just the sear?
I will be calling ohio rapid fire tommarow and asking questions, much thanks for the info let me know what kmp says Baron

[GUNRUNNER5150]

really? orf sold you the kmp sear - weird - they should know better than me, but it does seem pretty obvious in the picture that they are different sizes.

it wouldnt hurt to call orf and see what they have to say about it, i personally have had very little luck talking with them. See what they say - if still not sure get in touch with kmp - i havent held them up next to each other as i work on one gun at a time - but according to john mcguire i need a sear made for an ORF.

GR5150

[ohioblacksheep]

You Guys might have better luck just getting hold of Tomt..Baron, you DO need to get KMP's replacement sear for ORF to work with that trigger.. Last I knew KMP sell the trigger and sear set up for the ORF for the same price as there regular one. A spare sear I'm guessing was around $50...Lou

[BaronVonRoot]

Cool ill try calling everyone on the list thanks for the info its weird the few places that i did find sears availble esppesially ORF never mention thats theres diffrent sears on there website etc, you would think they would give you the options to choose a type, might be a interesting idea, when it comes to new parts to mention this somewhere, thanks for info guess i should just ask here before pretending I know what I am doing...LOL
they have closed down the forest due to fire restrictions arounf phoenix If i get this working I dont know where Ill shoot it bummer... ill keep ya posted Baron

[Kali Komrade]

Hey Baron... Did you build a stonger trigger return spring??? Often times thats all it takes... I don't see why you would have to replace a trigger and sear from a factory new built gun...

The Sears Ohio Rapid Fire uses I believe are Toms now... Theres been a few things kicking around on the other board talking about two approval letters one with a KMP trigger and Sear and ORF original trigger and sear for the guns they sold...

Also the triggers and sears they are offering are really for the homebuilder which the most commonly available pattern is TomT's KMP sear so that may explain the difference... Why do they offer something that they don't put in there own guns probibly so someone can't homebuild a complete ORF gun and say ORF built it...

[ohioblacksheep]

Kali,

It might be that no one wants to buy a ORF trigger and sear set up :mrgreen: ...Lou

[VonRundstedt]

KMP stuff in my 3 guns..foolproof.

[BaronVonRoot]

ok yes I put in a new stonger trigger return spring, no change what so ever, have tried head spacing... I am a newbie and have no one to look at this... to give me ideas. but looking at the trigger it seams weird the end with the flanges looks like there ground almost missing half the tab on one side... its been welded so it has no spring tention on it like the kmp dose... thats why I thought I would just replace them to rule it out, not knowing who to take it in the phoenix area, i didnt know what else to do, i figured that even if it wasent the problem haveing spare parts would no be a bad thing, and kmp stuff looked great.
I bought my 1919 from a guy at a gun show says it was a ORF. I would know how to tell the diffrence if it was a ORF or not its just what the guy said... so here I sit with a 1919 that I have to pull the triger back n forth on every shot... I guess i should have checked around better, with all this talk of gun bans I just wanted to get my hands on one, so I did not get a chance to call orf or kmp today on the list for monday if no ones home sat... I work to much Baron

[BaronVonRoot]

is there anyone you know of in the phoenix area that i can show this to friend, buddy, gun shop? thinking of calling big sandy guys for a referal ...

Baron

[VonRundstedt]

Baron, I'd help ya out but I'm in Colorado...don't know anyone in Arizona. But it seems like you bought a used gun which had a problem and was repaired by an amateur.

The early ORF trigger / sear design had problems. The one originally on your gun most likely broke and was welded back together. After so many problems, ORF started using the KMP trigger / sear parts, which are very good and reliable, but they DO NOT FIT the old ORF modified bolt.

If your trigger does not have the moving part (disconnector) functioning, as in it has been welded solid, you are lucky the gun has not fired correctly because it would likely run fully automatic. You are having to pull up on the trigger to reset it because to get the trigger tabs to re-engage the sear tabs, I think you are actually moving the bolt a bit when you yank the trigger up. This would explain why no amount of return spring will work. You need to either contact Ohio Rapid Fire and see if the original sear and trigger set are still available..from the ORF ORIGINAL gun design, not the KMP design. If this cannot be done, then you need to get another bolt and have it machined for your semi gun to fit the KMP parts, and have the KMP trigger installed in your lock frame.

You need also a good return spring, and a set screw in the lockframe to set the trigger travel correctly. I don't think this is something you are going to fix very quickly. How much you pay for this gun anyway?

[GUNRUNNER5150]

i feel ya baron - im sitting on a ORF that still dont work. since i had another gun that actually works, I screwed the pooch and waited too long to have Mguire take look at the orf, now hes retiring :banghead: so i know what ur going while sititing next to my 40 pound shop decoration.

Now im actually gonna get serious and try to get it going - first stop will be a trig/sear from kmp.

[BaronVonRoot]

ok yah i got screwed guy said it was a new ORF did not do my homework here just a busy self employed restarant builder here in phoenix and damn bizz is too good, ok i could have bought a new gun for what I paid 1200.00
so right of the bat I belive I should get a new bolt and have it machined to fit with the new kmp trigger I allready have the trigger and sear why not get it right
now is there other issues with the older ORF other than what I am faceing?
dose this sound like a good plan?
I dont mind the cost if I can make it true and reliable! or do I start over and mount this one to the hood of my truck for urban assult look? lol
if I were to do this again who do you recomend to buy a 1919 from?
Baron

[BaronVonRoot]

can you recomend someone for the machining of a bolt?
my brother is a machinest and has built alot of rifles from kits is a bolt something posible or is there alot of work on it?
is there any info avalible on machining the bolt?
Baron

[VonRundstedt]

Contact Tomt at KMP..they provide complete instructions on bolt modifications.

[BaronVonRoot]

thanks much :headbang:

[GUNRUNNER5150]

theres a guy on the other 1919 forum ( www.1919a4.com ) that goes by 30calmachinegunner . he does most of the machining for the guys on that site. reputation is good and fast work.

as far as a builder goes - i was fortunate enough to get a gun from john mcguire - i cant say enough about that guy and how he has helped me get into belt feds. Sad thing is he is retiring and no longer building/repairing guns.

allied armaments (alliedarmament.com) supposedly puts out a decent gun - ive heard some problems, but most seem to have been dealt with (parts wise). That being said, i think they are pretty immature and i have ceased business with them myself for a few reasons.

black bear supposedly puts out a great gun - but it will cost ya around 2 grand. :ouch:

im sure theres more but i cant remember at the moment.

I do believe theres a place called 'acme gadget division' that does repairs on 1919's - i wanna say the guys name is ryland fleet. If i cant get my gun going myself, ill be looking them up. Just an option to consider - i can get more info for ya if you start looking that route.

wouldnt be a bad idea to register at 1919a4.com - this forum is much more free and laid back - but that site has many more members that can help out with their experiences and services.

GR5150

[Kali Komrade]

Yeah Baron 30calmachinegunner just fixed another members old ORF unit and he knows how to retro fit it so it will work without getting a new bolt etc... if you need an email address PM me and I will get it to you...

[BaronVonRoot]

I have purchased a new bolt, its otw going to try and get it updated, hopefully it will finaly work! i will keep this in mind if I cant get it working
just had some engraving done 1919 looks great on the kitchen table!!! Baron
http://todejager.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=3

[Kali Komrade]

Well don't let that old bolt go to waste send that one out to be updated as well that old ORF trigger and sear suck... The first one I ever saw I thought it was going to fall apart... :horse: