Rivets: Air hammer or Hyd. Press?

[Urban_Ops]

What do you guys use, I have put all our AK's together with a massive air/hydraulic press. Of course the fixtures I have are for Ak's and not 1919's.
I don't think I will be building to many 1919's so maybe just buy an inexpensive air hammer rather than build new rivet fixtures?
I see the local industrial supply has air hammers for sale at $18 with 4 attachments which I can put in the lathe and recess for the rivet heads.
My concern with the air hammer is that I might end up with a lot of little smilies on the side plate if I slip off the rivet.

[Kali Komrade]

Honestly a lot of guys really had good results with the air hammer... I didn't....:dissapprove: I got wicked bad smilies... Don't know if I didn't have the hammer set up right or what but it just didn't work for me... All my builds I've just hand hammered them which is a major pain but I couldn't get the hydraulic way of doing it together right either...:thinkin:

1919_4_ME says I should be embarresed by my first go at riveting the 1919 but in the builders section I have my Ira Hayes project and yeah the pic's are in there of the damage I did....:dead: I've built a number of 1919's over the years and as infrequent as I've built them the Big hammer has taken care of everything just fine for me so far...

Any tips for riviting the Yugo AK's....:wink: I still can't get that one right...

My shame....

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m113/Dano561/misc/gradpictures2034.jpg

[Urban_Ops]

Ok, I think I will try the press first and see how it goes.
I received the woodruff cutter so I can make the sear cut.
I had planned on riveting at the shop today but now the car is at the mechanic, I think the coils are going :angry:

[billr]

I've only built one, but we used an air hammer. I think the trick is to ramp up the air real high and then really bear down on the air hammer. And then, only give it a quick shot.

We only had one or two smilies, and they're pretty hard to spot. The big trunnion rivets, that's a different matter. 30 minutes with the Really Big Hammer was what it took.

[Kali Komrade]

There will be no negotiations with the Big Hammer...:cool:

Just a tip here and I forgot all about it but because I have a couple of sets of parts on my build counter right now I usually take my trunnion rivets that I get from MSG and or ORF and grind off the excess of the rivet head... This makes cleaning them up easier... As the only ones that I haven't had to do that with are the Black Bear Rivets or the ones I used to get from Halo... I usually just chuck them up in the drill press and go at them until they just stick above the plate a little bit...

[ArizonaBeagle]

I noticed in the Allied Armament video that they used a torch to heat the rivets and gave them a quick shot with the air hammer and they got perfect rivets.

Do you guys use a torch too?

[Urban_Ops]

I have never heated a rivet prior to forming, looks quick though.

[Kali Komrade]

They say heating them up gets them a lot tighter... and sure they would be easier to form as well... I've just stuck with doing it via the cold method... The Ira Hayes project easily had 20,000 rounds through it and didn't have a loose rivet with the cold method... The main issue I had with it was the smiley faces it was my first build and the 4130 sideplate backplate slots were way too loose and I didn't like it... I think cold or hot I think your going to get the same effect other than when its hot its easier to form especially larger rivets which I've done on old Model A Fords...

[billr]

And coincidentally, it was Beagle's air hammer that we used. :smile:

I don't think hot would make a difference with the air hammer. If anything, you'd mash 'em down too fast. All it took was a really quick shot.

We did heat one of the larger rivets up a little. It seemed to help in the beginning, but was only luke warm by the time it was all the way pounded, so I'm not convinced it made much difference overall.

[GUNNER 50]

I've only built one, but we used an air hammer. I think the trick is to ramp up the air real high and then really bear down on the air hammer. And then, only give it a quick shot.

We only had one or two smilies, and they're pretty hard to spot. The big trunnion rivets, that's a different matter. 30 minutes with the Really Big Hammer was what it took.
When I built my first one I jacked the air pressure up all the way but it did not help any....I found if you turn it down to 90psi (it's max working pressure) it went a lot faster....I don't know why but it made a big diffrence.....I say stay at 90psi...And I was using a $10 HTF air hammer.

[Roc Rat]

I used heat and an impact hammer on my first build, but changed to a hydralic press from then on. You have to be careful in stabilizing the sideplates and squaring them up when pressing. I have a 20 ton and it squishes them easy. I always used Black Bear rivits too,, they are the exact right length and taper. If you drill and countersink correctly, they drop right in and crush down nice. ,,,,none of these either :smile:

[Urban_Ops]

I have the burned capitol rivet set, Just for kicks I am going to pick up a cheap air hammer and try a few practice rivets. If it feels good I will go with it otherwise I will use the press.

[Kali Komrade]

MSG/Burnt Capitals rivets aren't bad... When group buys were going on for the black bear rivets I always went with those... But dealing with getting them through Mike at MSG is so much more easier for me...

Take a look at the trunnion ones and you might want to chuck one up in a drill press or lathe and take it down a bit... Makes life so much easier... Thats why I loved the Black Bear rivet sets...

I tried the hydralic press and I have Mike's tool too and I couldn't seem to get my rivets right guess I just like using the hammer...:cool:

Another thing I was going to try on my next few builds I'm trying to get on my new work shop table is when we got the prints up for the rivets for the 1919 I noticed the rivet for the top plate front is not right in either kit and people always wonder why they can't get it to dome... They always come up short.... :shrug:
The way I take it from the rivet blueprints is that the head for that rivet was basically 60degree tapered as well... sooooo.... Think I'm going to try that on my next build and see if I can't get that nice correct tapered dome that you can only get with a extra long piece of mild steel rod...

So many builds so little time....:green: I can almost use my work bench.... yaaaaay.....:big:

[ArizonaBeagle]

I too, got my rivet sets and tools from MSG, but at the SAR Show I bought a couple of 1919 A-4 rivet sets from Tapco. Has anyone had any experience with them? I got them because the price was right and I had money in my pocket.:green:
They look pretty good, if looks count.

[RFleet1066]

The problem with riveting in general is keeping the force vector perpendicular to the datum plane. With a hydraulic press the rivet head wants to lean over to one side. Using an air hammer can give the same result.
I use a 3 ton arbor press with an orbital rivet head attachment that I built here. It uses an air motor driving a planetary reduction and belt drives the orbiting head. The rivet mandrel is held at a 7 degree angle and orbits the rivet head. Heat is generated by the pressure and resulting friction.......causing the rivet head to dome quite well.

Trimming the rivets to the correct length is required and will produce uniform results. The correct length can be determined by experimenting in piece of scrap material that has the same thickness and countersink as your actual workpiece. I usually trim them to a length that will result in the same size head dome as the left side plate's existing rivets.

Ryland Fleet
Acme Gadget Division

Inventor of the rivet