Range Report [Archive] - BeltfedShooters.com

anm2_man

08-08-2008, 11:04 AM

As promised, Went up to Flagstaff yesterday to test Rich's modified GEN II mount with my ANM2. There was GOOD news & BAD news. First the good news: Mount hung together (For a rookie welder). It seem reasonably stable and it caught at least 80% of the brass. For bad news, the link catcher caught less than 70% of the links. Question for Rich: my lower lip of the link catcher is 1/2" below the throat of the guns ejection port. Is this too low ? Does it need to be higher ? The video shows it throwing links out above the link catcher. When you build one of these for a 1919, is the lower lip of the catcher level with the ejection port ? Next bad new is the brass. First it throws a bunch of spent rounds forward. You can see it in the video. Next it smashed the necks of just about every spent round. Does anybody else have this problem.

The following is the regular speed video. DIfficult to see any thing:

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v4.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=2ew2z5g&s=4">

The video is remake in slowmotion. There is some longer sections where nothing is happening. But you can at least see where the links and brass are going.

<embed width="440" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://v4.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=mbilut&s=4">

Roger

Kali Komrade

08-08-2008, 11:46 AM

My gen II adapter doesn't do that... but the anm2 is a different breed of animal too... So I'll wait to see the video if you have a link to the video I'll check it out at home... sounds like there needs to be adjustment someplace...

GUNRUNNER5150

08-08-2008, 01:21 PM

looks like the front of the gun is mounted too high making the links jump over the link catcher tube, which is also too far away from the gun. and way too much space between the brass tube and the gun. I have never even seen a amn2 in person so i dont know how much different they as far as true size and getting them to work with a 1919 adapter.

But i must say, GODDAMN that thing flings links out fast and hard :wow:

Im gonna take a few pics of mine setup on the m2 pod for comparison. At this point i think the pintle is gonna have to be lowered or the link tube extended to almost touching the gun. Lowering the pintle should also close some of the gap between the brass catcher tube as well.

GUNRUNNER5150

08-08-2008, 01:40 PM

you might get away with just adding some at the top to the link catch tube, seems they are bunching up and flying over the missing part of tube. I still think it needs to be re-adjusted to that type of gun tho. On my 1919 the bottom steel peice that has the brass catcher tube attached to it is maybe a 1/4 inch from the gun itself.

this is just a quick pic i took of mine just now, but it does show how close the above mentioned items usually are.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4570/cimg0379jn8.jpg

anm2_man

08-08-2008, 02:19 PM

GR

Thx for the quick replys, but it looks like your link tube on the old stye mount is more flat vs the GEN II model. But yours also looks like the lower lip of the tube is below the throat of the gun. We will have to see what Rich says.

As far as the front of the gun being mounted higher - Yes it is. If you look at your 1919 the front mounts go thru the side plates. My gun has Leg's. But that may be causing the crushed necks on the spent rounds. I have a bunch of heavy rubber stock that I used to use on my Day cruiser boat to stop the water from comming into the engine. I could provide a baffle so as to stop the round's from bouncing around under the mount.

But It does throw the links above the link chute. Please remember that these were very short bursts. This video went thru about 70 rounds just that quick.

GUNRUNNER5150

08-08-2008, 02:27 PM

If you look at your 1919 the front mounts go thru the side plates. My gun has Leg's.

ahhhhhh now i think were getting somewhere. Ill have to google up some amn2 pics and see what were talking about. it may just need a spot for them legs to mount and line everything up.

GR

anm2_man

08-08-2008, 02:46 PM

GR

You can see the legs here:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5773/dloamn2eo2.jpg

Dan Wilson

08-08-2008, 08:56 PM

Here are some pictures of the mount I think you are referring to, don't know about what a Gen II or whatever is, I just thought it really looked cool so I got one from Rich (I am easily distracted by shiny objects) oh and it fit my Kraut AA tripod too.

Dan

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/FTFFTW/MilSurp/1919A4/100_4823.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/FTFFTW/MilSurp/1919A4/100_4824.jpg

Beltfedshooters

08-08-2008, 09:17 PM

Dan,
First I have to ask a question?

1.Is your skeleton wearing an oxygen mask?
2.That target in the background, what were using shooting make a group spread that big?:shock:

Ok going to watch Anm2 mans vids right now and see whats going on..:coffee:

Beltfedshooters

08-08-2008, 09:35 PM

Ok Roger,
This is my other account by the way so it still me.:green:

Ok after looking at your vids I see a few problems with the distance between the bottom chute and your the bottom of your gun.Basically on that part you want it as close as possible to your gun without touching it (@ 3/16 of an inch or less).This will definitely help the brass eject properly.Also if your brass is ejecting forward then you would almost need a small deflecter welded on the inside to sort of help deflect the brass downward.This would could be done by marking the inside where the brass is hitting then weld a small little deflector just above the mark.
Also on the link chute it needs to be close as possible to your gun without touching it (@ 1/8' or so)It needs to encapsulate it so the links can't shoot out the top of it.
After watching the video I think the mount needs to be redone slightly.I wish they made an airsoft version of this so I could use it as a mock up to build the right mount for it but I dont think they have them yet, will also check the Military vehicle guys and see if they have made a resin replica yet which would help out alot then we could get it to fit your gun like a glove.

Anyways good job on your first attemp now we know what were up against and the slight fixes that need to be done.We will get it done so your a happy camper and ready for Big Sandy.Will check around for a resin model this week.

P.S.
I still cant get over how FAST your gun is...:headbang:

Beltfedshooters

08-08-2008, 09:46 PM

Roger,
Guess what? One of my site sponsors actually just made a resin ANM2.If the A&B locations are the exact dimensions this will make our lives alot easier.:green:

Tell me what you think.
http://www.gunsofliberty.com/gol_anm2.htm

Kali Komrade

08-09-2008, 07:24 AM

Thats so insane how fast that gun runs even in slow mo.... Those legs offset the glove like fit thats for sure... the link chute looks a little low too... My first thought that because of the high rate of speed of the gun that as soon as the brass is released from the T slot it gets kicked forward by the bolt... That would be my thought not sure if an angled piece of metal would work but would be a good start...

anm2_man

08-09-2008, 12:48 PM

Rich, Dan, & Kali

On the link catcher side, I only tacked the catcher and holder. So I can knock the tacks off and reposition it. Looking at Dan's setup, it looks like his link catcher is much higher than mine. I'm going to raise it just under 1/2". I think that will fix the catching issues.

Now for the brass, the big problem is lowering the gun closer to the mount. This is a tough issue. The mounts backbone would have to be cut and staggered to lower the gun. After I seen that the brass was being thrown forward, a baffle is what is needed (as you suggested). I have some superduty nylon re-enforced rubber that I'll attach both fore and aft of the brass tunnel so that the spent brass will center itself in the down tube. I was plently suprised that the brass & links didn't backup. That is really good news.

I'll get to work on these mods next week and try it again.

PS: Rich if you get that replica, that may work out ok. I really like the way the gun feels on that mount.

Next time if all works ok, I'll tape a full out 100 round burst.

anm2_man

08-09-2008, 02:46 PM

I probably shouldn't post this here, but I'm Pissed - These Mini-DV video cams are great except don't reuse the Mini-DV tapes to often. I lost the first set of test becasue the tape stretches out and then when you rewind it, and try to record, it says PLEASE HIT THE RESET BUtton. It seems that the tape after rewind, goes beyond the tape mark that was set from the factory. You hit record and nothing happens. I thru that tape away.

anm2_man

08-09-2008, 02:49 PM

1919_4_ME

08-09-2008, 03:13 PM

Rich

That mock up is pretty expensive. If you don't plan on building a bunch of mounts (Remember there are some where's between 115 and 125 registered ANM2's in the NFA registry today), I would not spend my money on it !!!!

Roger

Roger,
Yep your right there is no market for ANM2 mounts.Over the years I've only been asked no more than 5 times if I had any ANM2 mounts and just like I orignal said "There isnt a market for them" BUT I would still gladly offer them if i had a dummy gun to go off of.Would probably sell maybe 3-4 of them at BIG SANDY or the CREEK and that would be the end of that project.:bow::green:

Dan Wilson

08-09-2008, 07:17 PM

Dan,
First I have to ask a question?

1.Is your skeleton wearing an oxygen mask?
2.That target in the background, what were using shooting make a group spread that big?:shock:

In answer to question 1, yes he is wearing one of my old flight helmets - I am going to throw a flight suit and survival vest on his sooner or later.

And question #2, that would be a variety of rifles, I usually go to the range with six or seven different one to maximize my ten dollar fee, many of them I shoot just to exercise the gun so I don't change out the target too ofter (I think that was a target from the last time I took the ol 1919 out though).
Also I shoot just good enough to kill what I need to kill but a match shooter I surly aint, between my eyes sucking and my tremors (plus just being a normally lousy shot) I would have to use one of these rifle vises to get a good group.
I really don't get those benchrest shooter guys, they bolt in and strap down their rifles to this vise thingy and act like THEY are the ones shooting those really cool groups - what a bunch of losers. Still I really should get one of those gun vise/rest things so I can test what my various guns CAN do:green:

Danhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/FTFFTW/funnys/animated%20gifs/1197083430661.gif

anm2_man

08-12-2008, 01:47 PM

Rich

I just got into my grubby hands, a complete torched ANM2. The left side plate + trunnion is complete, There is part of the right side plate, plus the legs and a bunch of other parts. If your really interested in building a couple mounts for the ANM2's you could use these parts to as a prototype to build this mount. Let me know what you want to do ?

Roger

Roger,
Yep your right there is no market for ANM2 mounts.Over the years I've only been asked no more than 5 times if I had any ANM2 mounts and just like I orignal said "There isnt a market for them" BUT I would still gladly offer them if i had a dummy gun to go off of.Would probably sell maybe 3-4 of them at BIG SANDY or the CREEK and that would be the end of that project.:bow::green:

1919_4_ME

09-11-2008, 05:35 PM

Ready for Test #2...:evilgun:

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/200/miscrifles055hj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4598/miscrifles064yh8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4540/miscrifles065pj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6518/miscrifles063od6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Kali Komrade

09-11-2008, 06:16 PM

Hey did you make sure there is enough clearance for the slide in the top cover so it doesn't bang into the link chute...

Very Pretty... Just clear coat it...:green:

1919_4_ME

09-11-2008, 06:23 PM

Hey did you make sure there is enough clearance for the slide in the top cover so it doesn't bang into the link chute...

Very Pretty... Just clear coat it...:green:

It will be close. I did put it so the top cover slide is just under the top of the link chute so there should be enough clearance. On this chute I had to put it as close a possible so the links wouldnt jump out or even get stuck in the link chute. If it does need a little fine tuning I'm sure Roger will just break out his dremel to fixer up.:green:

anm2_man

09-12-2008, 06:41 AM

It will be close. I did put it so the top cover slide is just under the top of the link chute so there should be enough clearance. On this chute I had to put it as close a possible so the links wouldnt jump out or even get stuck in the link chute. If it does need a little fine tuning I'm sure Roger will just break out his dremel to fixer up.:green:

I have ROTO-ZIP - Better than DREMEL !

1919_4_ME

09-12-2008, 06:42 PM

So how'd she fit? Like a virgin on prom night? :green:

anm2_man

09-14-2008, 01:31 PM

So how'd she fit? Like a virgin on prom night? :green:

Rich

There are no virgins until you pull the TRIGGER ! (Was that something ALA Said ?). ITs been a pretty busy weekend, But the gun fits i DId not try to cycle it but Its pretty tight. I need to watch that right belt holding pawl (Don't need to rub off the park on a C&R gun) as we shoot it. I will do a full test range report on Wednesday am (with Vids).

Will post here

Roger

1919_4_ME

09-14-2008, 02:51 PM

Rich

There are no virgins until you pull the TRIGGER ! (Was that something ALA Said ?). ITs been a pretty busy weekend, But the gun fits i DId not try to cycle it but Its pretty tight. I need to watch that right belt holding pawl (Don't need to rub off the park on a C&R gun) as we shoot it. I will do a full test range report on Wednesday am (with Vids).

Will post here

Roger

Ohhh... cant' wait to see the video. Is it wednesday yet?:popcorn:

anm2_man

09-16-2008, 01:30 PM

Well Rich - Needed a pretty big Dremel Tool . Set up the adapter on the tripod and found that the Breech Lock Cam Nut is hitting the the top of the backbone of the adapter. (my bad - I didn't add that to the mock up that I sent you). It also looks like the lenght is about 1/32" of an inch too long.

I have a pic of it, but everything is packed in the truck for tommorrow. I will post then.

Roger

1919_4_ME

09-16-2008, 02:07 PM

Roger,
Well that sucks but atleast you got it figured for the most part. Hopefully everything works ok on it and if we need to make some tweaks we'll get her fixed right up.:coffee:

anm2_man

09-16-2008, 03:03 PM

Rich

The only other issue is that I think you took a little too much off of the Link catcher. There is got to be at least 3/8" of space between the Pawl holding bracket and the throat of the bottom of the link catcher.

But we will give it a good test tomorrow.

Roger

PS: Shit I even had to got to the vault and get some more ammo - Only had about 500 rounds - gotta have a little bit more.

anm2_man

09-17-2008, 12:15 PM

Range Report Range Report Range Report

Ok we have both Good and Bad news. Some of the good news is my mod for the Breech cam nut works ok: Here are a couple of pics:

http://i33.tinypic.com/ae1ttj.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2e6exs9.jpg

As you can see in the last photo the rear pin mount is about 1/32" to long. Rich the original parts that you sent me were also about the same amount to long. There may be more play or the 1919 is just a bit shorter - I don't know. But I will try my son's 1919a4 on this adapter. You can also see in the second photo that the base of the side plate is hitting the mouth of the brass catcher. This can easily be fixed with a grinder.

Next Good news, the new mount collects and stacks 100% of the brass. When I post the videos later you can hear after the trigger is released, the brass tumbling down the tube into the bucket. Also the Link catcher gets and average of 98% of the links. So if you go thru 100 rounds you would find 2 links on the ground.

But there is a link catcher problem. As you can see in the following Pic :

http://i33.tinypic.com/ei1b91.jpg

There is a bit too much room between the catcher and the belt holding pawl bracket. During lengthly bursts, the links get caught on the lower lip of the catcher. And we are talking major jams. On one of them I had a hard time opening the top cover. Unfortunately the catcher needs to be closer to the gun.

Here are a couple of other Pics:

http://i37.tinypic.com/54g8cg.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/2ykyg5f.jpg

But the gun looks really good on this adapter. We will get the wrinkles out soon.

I'll post some videos as soon as I can get them converted and uploaded. (Still Pictures are a lot easier).

Roger

Kali Komrade

09-17-2008, 01:02 PM

Hey Roger I have a question when the links jam up are they catching on the forward portion of the link chute at all? I understand they are catching on the lip...

I think I have a solution to this issue with the links catching and I'll run it by Rich to see if he would like to try it... It would certainly be more efficient and should resolve that issue...

anm2_man

09-17-2008, 02:06 PM

Kali

It looks like they are getting caught on the lower lip of the Catcher. Its hard to tell but in the subsequent videos you should be able to see how they jam up. I never paid attention before, but it looks like the gun keeps a link sitting on the trunion after the round is extracted. Then comes the next round and the previous round gets pushed out. and this repeats and repeats.

The first Vid is a bit long but its our first test

Well there seems to be a problem with the VId's that I uploaded to Tinypic. They say that the video is not found but you can actually see the video. DUH !!!!!

I just love this technology and it SUCKS

anm2_man

09-17-2008, 02:18 PM

Ok who does no BS Hosting ?

GUNRUNNER5150

09-17-2008, 03:49 PM

photobucket.com is my choice when it comes to videos. ive had troube with the other sites like imageshack.us.

or just email em to me and ill put em up on my photobucket account when i get back later tonite

GR

anm2_man

09-18-2008, 05:16 AM

Ok here is photobucket:

First vid is First test - rather long but shows how well the adapter works:

TM_Adapt_1.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

The next 2 are from different angles:

TM_Adapt_2.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

TM_Adapt_3.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

And the last one is "Can the old man shoot ?"

TM_Adapt_4.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

anm2_man

09-18-2008, 05:21 AM

Gunrunner

Thx - photobucket works damm good.

Kali Komrade

09-18-2008, 05:30 AM

Looks good Roger...

1919_4_ME

09-18-2008, 08:26 AM

Ahh yes much better with videos. :green: I can see exactly where its getting hung up right on the front part. Its crazy I lined the middle of the chute up with that square part on the top cover but it appears thats not where it needs to be lined up off of.Its gotta go atleast a 1/2 to 3/4' more forward of the square part? I can't believe two links snuck out of the top of that chute its so damn close already. Well its good o know that brass chute is working correctly.Would like to see some sharpie marks as to where there hitting on the inside for future reference.Also would need it marked with a sharpie the direct line of the links so I know how much to move it forward. http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4403/weldersmileyiw9.gif (http://imageshack.us)

anm2_man

09-18-2008, 09:16 AM

Rich

If you look on page 3 of this thread, there is a picture on where its hitting. But to make the clearance necessary for the breech lock cam nut to clear correctly in the back, The rear mount bracket on the adapter needs to be raised about 1/8". This change would provide clearnce between the gun and the brass catcher.

Roger

1919_4_ME

09-18-2008, 09:41 AM

Just send it back and I'll fix it.:green:

GUNRUNNER5150

09-18-2008, 09:44 AM

anm2_man

09-18-2008, 02:56 PM

looks like its coming along, couple more little mods and it'll be there. As fast as that thing shoots links out i would think the link chute would almost have to be touching the gun to catch that river of steel flying. what is the rate of fire on that thing anyways? (as my wallet screams from the other room "too fast" lol )

GR

Well it depends on the ammo - from 1200 to 1300 rounds per minute ! But if you think about it its only $.27 per round. There was a total of 16 minutes posted and we went thru 500 rounds which means there was less than 30 sec of shooting. We were out there for 3 hours. I really love the sounds of the brass tumbling down the hose when you let off of the trigger. Its really cool.

Roger

anm2_man

09-18-2008, 03:17 PM

Just send it back and I'll fix it.:green:

Rich So you think just moving it forward will fix the jam problems ? Or is it a combination of too much space now between the catcher and the right side pawl bracket and moving it forward ? I had a good picture of the space that I posted earlier. I think that there is a little to much space between the lower lip of the Link catcher and the guns pawl bracket. During one session, I noticed that a link would hook there. Most of the time it would get pushed out, but sometimes it didn't.

I know your going to be pretty busy with your SoCal shoot soon and I need this adapter for the Big Sandy shoot which is less that 4 weeks away. I have a bunch of re-loading and linking I need to do between now and then. I was thinking about getting the sawzall out and cut and relocate the Link catcher my self. If I can get another test in before the BS, and it works that would make me really happy.

I don't mind shipping it back, so let me know what you think ?

Roger