W860 vs 5010

[swedishmeat]

both are priced the same and are designated for the .50 BMG
what are the differences/advantages etc. Hurry before I buy 200 8# jugs. of the wrong stuff. will be using it in the M2/M3.
If it matters....will be shooting AP ...

[Kali Komrade]

Meat I like the 5010 its not a ball powder don't forget to leave some 8 pounders for us small fries... Currently I believe most everyone has more of the 860 WC in stock so everyone is really digging the 5010... I shot a 1moa group on pulled 5010 powder two weeks ago... so its got my vote...

Does anyone know if WC is doing the 860 in ball powder format???

[VonRundstedt]

I've been using 5010 exclusively. It does have a longer burn time, which makes it better for accuracy, but it also positively lights tracers, even though there is a heat trade-off. It is a bit cleaner burning than 860. I like it a lot.

It's only down side is the extruded huge grains are difficult to meter accurately from the Hornady powder drop, and I have found that weight / density can vary greatly depending on the condition of the batch, so it is critical to treat each jug as a zero starting point. If you use enough of it you'll see what I mean. Some jugs you weigh 225 gr into a case and it doesn't come past the neck-down taper..the next jug that same weight will fill the case almost to the bullet base.

But performance is very good so far. I've been buying from Wideners.

[swedishmeat]

Thanks for the info....it will determine my buying habits. I am not $$ loaded.
Reminds me of Tiny Tims dad in Scrooge, handing out a cup of soup to each family member, blessing the availability of said meal. Then the closet door swings open to reveal..... a pair of M2HB's. In her weakened state, it took Mrs. Tiny Tim's Dad three city blocks to run him down and beat him to death...the local news showed her final kicks to his lifeless body in the middle of the cobblestone streets....if I stop posting.... you'll know I shoulda fixed that closet door.
I got my first batch (WC860) from wideners also. Now I know to choose the 5010 while it's available. But, there is the limited supply of bullets, brass & primers. Ohhhhhh, what first and next.
I also need a powder measure, thrower, case trimmer, primer pocket crimp thing. etc. any advice is welcome.
I bought the .50 BMG Lee press kit from wideners (last one)

At least soup is cheap.

[VonRundstedt]

So far polygunbag has been coming through with a steady supply of bullets, although I just got the last 500 Grade 1 APIT .50, they just got in a load of sized and polished M2 AP for $125 per 500, and even the unsized I buy from them has very slight dings from the case splitter. They ALSO have FN M61 .308 AP bullets...quite a find while they last...these are a NATO 152 gr AP round with a full length tungsten steel needle point core. Certain to severely Fk up someones' day if need be. I haven't tested them at long range, but from a 1919 at 200 yds they chew up stuff good. I'd recommend shopping polygunbag for bullets, and in fact I got 500 pcs of polished .50 brass from them that was excellent once-fired. They have stuff, get while it's there!
For blasting cheap, they get primed CBC .308 cases and sell them pretty cheap, like .10 cents each. For a sized primed case, good! I load them with surplus pulled M80 ball and 844 and blaze away.
No, I'm not getting kick backs. I got tired of Pats' backlog and all the waiting, so it's Wideners for powder (4 days delivery), Polygunbag for some brass and bullets (2 to 4 days), Hi Tech for #35 white box NATO primers (4-5 days) and I buy tools direct from Lee.

Cheap case size and trim: I use the Lee lube in tubes, but water it 50-50 and size wet, not dry. I do primer pocket crimp removal using a 1/2" countersink in a drill. Another big Makita has the Lee case holder chucked in it to spin the brass, and with the Lee pilot and .50 trimmer, a 3/4" countersink to deburr the inner edge, a small flat file to deburr the outer edge, and lots of scotchbrite, I turn out slick sized cases at a rate of a hundred in an average evening, build up until I get about 500 ready then press one night.

[swedishmeat]

excellent information Von.. one more question...
I have 600 rounds of fired brass that I am about to deprime. I look down and have a small tube of the case lube that came with the press. Is there a good substitute for mass use. like synthetic motor oil or vaseline or graphite?

or KY. :moon:

PS do you ever invite special friends over to shoot/visit. sometimes, it's good to know who your friends are.

[VonRundstedt]

All are welcome who worship at the alter of Browning, especially they who sacrifice large quantities of US Bankrupt Reserve Notes to the Ammo Godz.

Everything you mentioned will ruin cases. Oil has one characteristic..film thickness..which cannot be overcome. Oil is deliberately used because it compresses to .001-.002 then goes no further. Its why the crank in your engine does not weld itself into the block at 5000 rpm. Its floating in that .002 oil film.

Lee sells the case lube at $1.98, so I buy a 12 tube box. It isn't terribly speedy, as you have to lube each case individually, but the stuff has advantages, most noteably the fact that it's damn near impossible to dent a case with the stuff. If you use any oil lube in the sizing process, eventually you get enough of it between the die wall and the case to bunch up and you'll press a dent into the brass. Thin this Lee white stuff 50-50 with water, hand apply it very thin, and every 75-100 cases rinse out the die with very hot water to get rid of build up, and you'll never dent a case, and never get one stuck in the die. Obviously, I like it. Even though water or water based items cannot be compressed, this is thin enough to get out of the way and be pushed out. Anything petroleum will stick and dent the brass.
But you're stuck hand applying to each case.

[swedishmeat]

That just saved me some trouble. and headaches.
Thanks

[Kali Komrade]

I've used the Lee stuff and currently am using the dillon stuff I have about the same results using both of course the dillon goes on in a spray... Maybe Von might be able to shead some of the negative effects of the dillon type or have you used it before Von???

[50 Shooter]

Personally I like Hornady's "Unique" case lube, little goes a long way. :headbang:

[Kali Komrade]

Is that the aerosol stuff (Hornady's)...

[VonRundstedt]

Anything that works...I have this abstract affinity for things which require time and hands-on. Other lubes certainly must work well, I've just grown fond of the messy method. And I've just had decent results using the Lee stuff. It is time consuming though.

[50 Shooter]

Unique comes in a cup, you wipe a little on your fingers and wipe it on the case before sizing it. I usually put a little on my fingers and spread it around my hand, pick up the case and roll it in your hand to coat the case.

[Kali Komrade]

Huh I've tried using the paste style stuff but the Dillon 650 starts picking up too much of it... We had to break down and clean about every 250-400 rounds... Which in retrospective is not that bad... However since we started using the Dillon stuff we can usually get about 1500 rounds before cleaning...

I've heard you can thin those pastes and spray them on like the dillon stuff...I think I'll try that next time I get an empty dillon sprayer. I may have been applying too much of it... I was always taught to rub the neck on the edge pad with the resizing lube in it... The spray that I think I've used in the past was the RCBS I've tried both types the Snot and Aerosol did not like the aerosol and the snot did not go far...

[50 Shooter]

I use the Unique for the .50 only, I don't use lube for pistol rounds with carbide dies. As you know rifle rounds will need a little lube when running them through the press.

It would be nice to be able to avoid the mess associated with any case lube but it's all part of the picture. :coffee: